First up then, a long-overdue visit down The Lane to catch Notts at home to Chesterfield in a big match at the top end of the Vanarama National League. The over-riding impression of this one being that here was a match that really did not feel like a ‘non-League’ fIxture. Two clubs here most would associate only with League football, in a stadium that puts plenty three divisions higher to shame. A gate of just North of 10,000 and a travelling Spireite support of 2,700 only added to that feeling of things being all out of kilter. By my calculations, there are seven or eight League Two clubs with average home attendances lower than Chesterfield’s away support here. The number of home supporters present would place Notts in the top four or five in that same division, really behind only Bradford City’s hugely impressive average gate of over 15,000. One for the “not a football city” theorists to ponder. That said, clubs are generally where they deserve to be and big crowds count for nothing in that respect.
While we’re at it… what a ludicrous division to get out of. Maybe ten clubs in there with significant League history, others up and coming, others with loads of money being thrown at them. It may be true of other divisions, but it certainly looks much harder to get out of than it would be to stay in League Two. If that makes any sense at all. It’s a kind of bottle-neck of football ambition. Surely, it must be time to look at three up, three down here.
As a Red, I have to be careful writing about Notts, as it is easy to come across patronisingly, something we’re often called-out for. In fact, old mate and long-suffering Pie Jamie’s first comment on meeting up yesterday was to have a slight dig at my previous blog piece about the strange relationship between the two Nottingham clubs: https://peeveeh.wixsite.com/ziggerzagger/post/sunday-14th-nov-forest-and-notts-a-peculiar-relationship. That certainly hadn't been the intention with that and all I can say is that it was well-meant and I’m very fond of ’the neighbours’. That article goes more into the history and ‘politics’ of this, but it might be an age-thing, harking back to times when fellers like my old man habitually just alternated Forest-Notts week-to-week. As such, as a kid, I was as familiar with Les Bradd, Dave Needham and Don Masson as I was with any of the Forest squad of the time. Nice note here, spotted Sir Don only yesterday morning when cycling past the B and B he runs near the A52. In fact, a big day for star-spotting, also ran into David Johnson whilst out cycling and had a nice chat about fancying a top end carbon gravel bike and maybe giving up on the road. I’ve planted the seed that Brennan could buy him an £11k S-Works for Father’s Day.
(l to r, The Don has time on the ball to ponder the place of black pudding on the Full English; while Jonno’s seen the cost of that S-Works)
Jamie also noted just how galling it is to hear supporters of other clubs bemoan how long suffering they are and what they go through with their team. His latest example being a Spurs fan he’d encountered this week. It has to be said, there can be few, if any, supporters who have seen such a fall from grace, sustained at that, as a Pie of a certain age. With the rare and quirky achievement of being relegated from Division One to Division One (along with West Ham and Luton)*, the Notts vintage of Colin Wanker (anag) narrowly missed being a Premier league side. Having had a close shave with a further relegation the following season, under Mick Walker, they then only just missed out on a 1993-4 play-off spot by three points. Leicester went up through those, whilst Forest were promoted as runners-up behind Palace. Charlie’s Palmer’s late winner against Forest that season, all the more remarkable as it was only the 4th of his career, is still celebrated on 12th February as Sir Charlie Palmer Day. But not chez Zagger!
(*Thanks here to Wendy, @pieorama2 for pointing out my original claim that Notts were the only club to have done this, which was a daft thing to write!)
(L to r - it still niggles. The stroppy looking guy on the left summed my feelings up quite nicely. Big fan of that sheepy though. Middle, a long fall from this sort of day out to Boreham Wood. Right, that shocking moment in grainy colour!)
It was also Jamie who pointed me in the direction of gthe remarkable ‘voice-change‘ interview with Chesterfield’s scouse manager Paul Cook. If you‘ve not heard this, it’s fantastic and well worth a look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1cfWnSEr5w
L to r - Paul Cook Chesterfield‘s manager and man of astonishing voice changes; Paul Cook, erstwhile drummer with the Professionals, who were terrific at the Bodega a few weeks back; same (drummer, not manager) Paul Cook in his Pistols days.
Continuing the glamour of mingling with the stars for the day, a good half-time spot, down the back of the Derek Pavis stand, none other than Shane Meadows, attending fuss-free below the radar with his lads. Between him, Jake Bugg and Vicky McClure, Notts do seem to have the cooler end of the celebrity supporter spectrum thing boxed off for this city. Even in the world of crime-fiction, the shambolic jazz-loving detective, Charlie Resnick in the brilliant John Harvey novels was - almost inevitably - a ’Pie.
(l to r None of these people are Su Pollard or Leslie Crowther. Shane Meadows, Jake Bugg, enviable away kit, Vicky McClure)
Paul Cook’s Chesterfield look a decent, well organised side with, on the second-half showing, a bit of a brutal edge. Notts started brightly, were decidedly second best for the the rest of the first half and came back well in the second to make a 1-1 draw a very fair result. Personal highlight of that second half was to sit directly in front of categorically the angriest man I have ever encountered in my life and that includes the apoplectic white-van-driver who decked me last Summer for having the temerity to be on the Queen’s highway on a bike. How he just didn’t explode remains a medical mystery. He’s like it every match, I’m told, home and away, and you could only sit and gasp at his sustained intensity. A phenomenon and fair play to him. He raged at everything, steam-out-of-ears, full on Yosemite Sam, had an obsession with ‘bleddy in-breds’ and still had the good grace to be very charming to the old, dressed-up Chesterfield couple sat nearby on the final whistle.
The most bizarre moment of the second half, Mr Angry’s performance notwithstanding, had to be the otherwise impressive Kyle Wootton’s close range header at an open goal, which seemed to turn into a goal-line clearance of Alex Lacey’s own header. Another feature of the match was the anonymity of one Harry Arter, who surely ought to be bossing matches after this level. He’s a class act, but was never really in this.
So, one-all it finished, leaving the assembled Chesterfield hordes to finally be able to leave this “shithole” of a city; one they seemed to enjoy getting to for a good sesh from about 10am and then hang around til closing time, for the multitudinous attractions of their own fair town, where presumably they sit and gaze lovingly at that crooked spire all day as well as enjoying all its other well-known delights! ;-)
(This does not look much like a match in the 5th division!)
In other news, Italy crash out of the World Cup, England fans seem to spend a lot of (drug-induced?) energy fighting one another at Wembley and Grimsby Borough clinch the Northern Counties East League Premier title with a 3-0 home win v Maltby Main. They move up to Tier 4 football after 14 years in the NCEL. Always going to be a tricky one for Main this, as GB have a remarkable 100% home record. Congrats to them.
Online, some heated debate amongst Forest supporters of which would you have preferred (yes, purely hypothetical now I know): FA Cup or promotion? The verdict is surprisingly evenly split and I’ve had to re-appraise my original view which was that it was a bloody silly question and that promotion was a ‘no-brainer’ winner here. The interesting philosophical debate centred around the fact that football is about winning things and winning the FA Cup is categorically winning something. It’s there on the records. Forever. Promotion only earns you the right to be in a higher league, doesn’t actually win you anything and also rather frequently ends up just with you dropping back down where you came from. That’s the argument anyway, I’m not sure now. One for the Existentialists to ponder, perhaps.
(Simone de Beauvoir has just suggested that promotion is more important than the FA Cup. Cue moody silence from Jean Paul Sartre, whilst he ponders this tricky philosophical conundrum. Pic taken at Tooting & Mitcham v Forest, 1959)
Mention of the FA Cup brings us back to last Sunday. In the calm after the storm, there were many positives. Forest went toe-to-toe with a fantastic side and, had Philip ZInckernagel been Lewis Grabban, or my 89 year old Mum, could well have won it. The atmosphere was electric and for Juergen Klopp to mention that is something, given the Yellow Wall, Kop and all that. My thoughts on the efforts of the club and a minority of supporters still stand and have soured my feelings for the time being. I’ll get over it. Thanks to all, especially the masses of LFC types who have been really kind, for their thoughtful and understanding support on this. I’ll keep working on the education side of things and, indeed, was involved in a meeting with some educationalists up on Merseyside this very week. The aim is to at least plant some seeds of understanding down here and hopefully one day turn the tide. I’ve realised you can’t win a war in one battle and will keep at this. Next steps for me, to continue to develop and share lessons to encourage understanding and The Truth, to be at the anniversary events (thanks for the many invites and offers of going out for a bevvy!) and to continue to support the Hillsborough Survivors Support Alliance, including doing their fund-raiser walk in July with a team of other Forest supporters.
Notts fan here. What a great read and quality writing. Sartre and de Beauvoir making an appearance in the same blog as Shane Meadows and Vicky McClure was an unexpected bonus!
Great read as usual. It seems that for some the antipathy between NFFC and LFC is still mutually mired in the (ignorant) stereotypes of the 80s and early 90s - the last time we were serious rivals. Thank you for all the work you’re doing to address this.